When I picked the Haitian Revolution as my new period, I chose it for a number of reasons. I wanted to do a Napoleonic skirmish game, but one that not many people would know about or even bother to do. I did think about the Peninsular or even the Waterloo period, but these have been done over and over again, by others.
Then I saw a advert for Trent Miniatures Haitian Revolution range and found Stuart's blog , Dust, Tears & Dice and I was hooked. But it has caused me a few problems.
Personally I rather not to play any games post WWII, as they're a bit too close to home, I understand that some people are fine with playing Falklands, Iraq and other modern warfare, I say good luck to them, but they do make me a little uncomfortable.
In my naivety I didn't think playing the Haitian Revolution would cause any problems, it was 232 years ago after all. But the date isn't the problem??
Sometimes my kids and Mrs are in a happy mood and they actually listen to me bang on about my latest wargame creation, (usually their eyes glass over, much like mine do, when the conversation goes over to shoes and handbags). I spoke about the up coming battle plan, where the black Colonial Infantry, joined forces with the mulattoes and rebel slaves. I was then read the riot act, "why do you have to call them black infantry, that's racist?" and so on.....
I tried to explain that they were the terms used back in 1792 and there were a lot more terms that really can't be used anymore. They asked what a mulatto was, I explained it was a half white, half black or brown or mixed race person, at the time they were known as mulatto or creole. I got told off once again, there was really no talking to them.
So my point here is, what are you supposed to say or do, I'm a wargamer, not a politician. I do have many political views, none of which I might add are in any ways racist. But trying to explain this very difficult period of history, can wind people up the wrong way? Its a very nasty period, mistreated slaves, slave owners, massacrers and lots of racial tension.
I was talking to Dave from Milton Hundred who runs the Broadside Wargame show, he told me one of the other local Kent clubs were asked not to put on their WWI Palestine game, that they'd spent a year getting ready, at another local show, as they thought it was in bad taste, with what's going on today with Israel and Palestine.
This got me thinking about the civil unrest that's going on in Haiti at the moment??? As I'm putting a game on at the Broadside Wargame Show on the 8th June, so I thought I'd ask the guys there whether they thought me putting a Haitian Revolution game on was ok? Was it going to cause offence? Did they really need the hassle? Luckily they told me to go ahead.
I do understand my generation is completely different to my kids generation, but history is history and in the end this is a game..........What do you guys n gals think?
Ray, I know gamers who stopped gaming WWII Russian Front when the Russo-Ukraine War broke out. What method of virtue signaling is that I wondered and why should this present-day conflict squash wargaming an earlier conflict? I also see a march toward discouraging the refighting colonial wars.
ReplyDeleteDoes refighting the bloody and very brutal Saint-Domingue Revolt from 225 years ago create similar conflict and consternation? Perhaps. Brutality is still present on Haitian streets today. As a counterpoint to today's violence and upheaval, bringing your game to the table may provide a teachable moment from which some can walk away with a better understanding of the conflicts both past and present. Here, during the Saint-Domingue Revolt, we see the slave and lower classes overthrow the ruling class. In addition to winning the conflict these revolutionaries helped to extinguish the slave trade in the colony and gave these formally oppressed people a voice. The Saint-Domingue Revolt was a colonial war as well but with a much different outcome. If questioned, I would emphasize that.
Will your game cause offense to some? Probably but as I hear today, "haters are gonna hate".
A great answer Jon, that's the kind of comment I wanted. Thanks!
DeleteWargaming should be fun and what is interesting to you - the gamer/historical or otherwise. Can't please everyone. BTW, I think your choice in this period is great - I started with Peninsular War for Napoleonics, but agree that can become boring.
ReplyDeleteThanks Dean.
DeleteI think Jon has summed it up far better than I could Ray and I totally agree with his post, says it all.
ReplyDeleteIt does, doesn’t it
DeleteFor our generation i like to think the Haitians are the good guys, fighting for freedom. I have some problems playing with Dave's epic Sudan collection, the Mahdists are just there to be killed, with little backstory.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly how I see the period.
DeleteThis is for fun and you are visiting a point in history when things were very different. Johnathan's answer is great.
ReplyDeleteThanks Alex
DeleteI too have always steered away from modern games as well, mainly because I can remember living under the threat of nuclear war as a child in the early eighties wondering if it was all going to suddenly end. As other's have said I think Jonathan's answer is a great one, and I'd probably print out an explanation along those lines and put it in a prominent place otherwise you will soon get bored having to explain yourself over and over again.
ReplyDeleteI've got a timeliness of the whole war printed out. Hopefully that will help?
Deleteoh, does anyone really see a problem with recreating historical events in games?
ReplyDeleteTerrible times :)
Let it bring joy to everyone, and we won't change history...
p.s.
How many times have I received "hate" for having the nerve to paint SS soldiers? I'm sorry ( not sorry). They were part of history and an important element in many campaigns.
Amen to that. Thanks Michal.
DeleteDon't worry about what others might think or say and just do what you do. You've been painting and collecting these models for a long time and the current coincidental situation shouldn't affect your decision or game.
ReplyDeleteGood answer, thanks.
DeleteIgnoring history , only leads to it being repeated . It’s an opportunity to educate as Jonathan says
ReplyDeleteCheers Dave.
DeleteI didn't think I had any issues with historical periods until I read Martin's comment - then realised that I'd just expressed an issue with a North Riding Wargames Group future project, last week.
ReplyDeleteInteresting reading that you've some problems with Dave's Victorian Sudan collection Martin. I don't know enough about the history of Egypt/Mahdist/Sudan to have had an issue playing with these toys when they were brought to Scruton previously. But I do know more about the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War, the build up and aftermath, and I'm quite sympathetic to the amaZulu to start with, so that's one of the reasons why I don't want to collect for the 1879 conflict. Earlier Zulu conflicts, against other African tribes or the Boers, I'm fine with, but I'm not interested in playing out representations of 1879.
But this hang up is solely my problem - it's not really a problem, really - so I don't/wouldn't have an issue seeing others enjoying gaming the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War. And I happily watch the film Zulu, so it's a bit of a weird point of contrariness on my part with myself - typical Yorkshireman.
But as to your Haitian dilemma Ray? Pass. You've asked the show organisers and they've given you the green light to go ahead, to my mind there's nothing further to do or worry about. As it's already been stated, "haters are gonna hate" so sod 'em and just enjoy yourself with the rest of the Rejects.
Sounds good to me. Cheers Roy.
DeleteJon put it grandly. I would just add that all war is brutal, whenever it happens. When we game we are not reliving any socio-political climate but rather studying and experimenting with strategy and battlefield tactics and the battle of wits between opposing generals. In real life there would be bloodshed but not so on a table. To paraphrase Jon, let the haters hate, disregard and move on and enjoy.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mike, sound advice.
DeleteDon't forget to point out that your game represents one of the few high points of hope for majority of Haitians Ray.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that it was one of the few successful slave revolts in history
We play games with toy soldiers and now and then we might consequently educate some people. I'd say your game will do that.
As to the racial terminology I've never met anyone Black who objected to the term Black as a descriptive.
As you know Creole was more than a description in Haiti, Creoles were a class with distinct rights. You cannot talk about Haitian history without understanding that. Nor can you game it without knowing who was who. I'd suggest to anyone offended that they read a book. Maybe The Black Jacobins would do the trick.
Best of luck with the game. I'm sure it will be a treat for all concerned.
Your right. Playing this period IS a celebration for all the people of Haiti and what they achieved getting shot of not only the French, but he English and Spanish as well.
DeleteI can imagine some might be offended Ray, But I doubt many wargamers would be. Personally, I don't have an issue with playing games based on "The War on Terror" etc, nor any other Colonial type of game - how about Pony Wars - I cant think of a much more brutal, deliberately exterminative "conflict" than that - it was basically ethnic cleansing - and I have read it suggested that the Unions "March Through Georgia" was the first example of "Total War" - or is that ok because the South were the "baddies" because some of them owned slaves?
ReplyDeleteAs to Jons comment about WWII, like it or not, if the Red Army had not bled the Nazis white on the Eastern Front, we might still be fighting it! Some people 9and even I might draw the line here) are already playing modern games pitting the Ukranians against the Russians....I am sure Ukranian refugees living in the UK or US might be upset if a local wargames show had a game based on that, but I doubt they would even find out!
Terminology about skin colour is ever evolving too - "Black" was once offensive and people trying to be sensitive said "coloured" (NACCP etc) but then Black became the accepted term, although that may have moved on again - in the US its fine to say African American but we don't say African Britain as far as I know - 40 years ago it was west Indian - but that's an assumption nowadays - I bet half the "african" people in the UK these days ACTUALLY did come from Africa, not the W Indies!
So go for it - if the organisers are ok with it, I am sure mots if not all of the attendees will be too!
Thanks for the comment Keith. I think you're right, hopefully it will go without any problems?
DeleteFirstly a really lovely collection Ray and indeed an interesting but not often seen period. As to the approach to gaming historical conflicts that is a delicate balance I think, and a big distinction between gaming at home with friends and a demonstration game at a show. I myself am comfortable gaming modern periods in the dungeon, however it is the sharing of those games and the context that I recognise could cause offence. I have put my small Arab/Israeli collection away for a while ! One of the great benefits of wargaming is it actually opens up history for people to understand you might have an opportunity to to link your game to the modern situation, as gamers/historians we all know there are many many lessons to be learned from the past conflicts we game. I say share the knowledge in a respectful way and enjoy the game 👍
ReplyDeleteThanks Matt, that's some great advice.
DeleteFirst, you have done a lot of effort to bring the period together. Don't have the project stall over a few terms. Take a leaf of the new appellations used. The problem of race is that you might not have a fair amount of common points for usage. Shorthand leads to misunderstanding, and you certainly are standing innocently enough in your intentions.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started gaming, colonial gamed in general were esoteric rumbles utilizing The Sword and the Flame and lots of movie quotes. I have not played a game set in Afghanistan in over a decade, partly because of the recent operations there. Having watched the Vietnam War through high school and college real time I admit to never having played the conflict.
I think keeping an eye on perceptions is important in presenting a game. Just keep up the good work.
Thanks for the advice Joe.
DeleteI don't think there is anything inherently wrong with gaming this period. i think quite the opposite, it's actually a Spartacus type scenario, just with african slaves against european.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, to uote Wikipedia, which puts it nicely, the revolution was the only known slave uprising in human history that led to the founding of a state which was both free from slavery and ruled by non-whites and former captives. The successful revolution was a defining moment in the history of the Atlantic World and the revolution's effects on the institution of slavery were felt throughout the Americas.
So you are gaming a defining moment of the world, and can even if people ask, go through and show the aftermath and the isolation of the newly independent Haitian government from the world as the slave keeping nations didn't want to make this new adventure successful for fear of it leading to more revolts. Haiti's sugar plantations should and could have made it one of the richest islands on the plant, but deliberate trade isolation kept it poor.
I think the only thing you might need to be careful about, is some of the wordings. I don't think half the issues come from what you are gaming, rather than you have used modern trigger words to describe a historical setting.
I for one love the seting and love learning more about itas you go along!
keep up the good work
I think you're absolutely correct, this is my take on it as well. By gaming the period, you are celebrating the fact that they successfully over through a massive colonial power. But trying to explain this fact without causing offence is quite difficult.
DeleteA 43 year old Swede here, a wargamer since I was 13, very much anti-rasist and left wing and have studied history. Just to to give you an idea of what my perspective might be. And I was late in being lead here from Youtube but since I noticed that it was today after writing what follows I thought that I might as well post the comment. Any way, the post was interesting and I like what I have seen from you blog so far. :)
ReplyDeleteI think several commentators have already pointed it out, directly or indirectly, but there is a question of presentation and perception. Present it as "just a game" and then proceed with french soldiers gunning down "fanatical blacks", to take the view of the long dead historian you quoted in an later post, and it will would very much be a rasist celebration. Have the exact same scenario, have a very short and clear text or poster about replaying on of the battles that lead to the creation of Haiti as a nation, avoid any rules named "fanatical" or "zombies" regarding the Haitian fighters and it would be an educational experience and a celebration of a successful slave rebellion. Context and presentation matter!
Some might say that it does not matter how you present it or that anything that interest you are ok but that is only true as far as it does not happen in public. You don't make some jokes in public, with people that do not know you and that you don't know if they would be hurt by it. It is just like you don't make certain jokes with friends that you know will be offended or hurt by them at that point in time. The same apply to contentious terms. I don't think "black" as a reference to people are negative but, in most cases at least, but English is my second language and I am white so I don't really know. But if your family reacts to it, consider just omitting the terms since they don't add anything to the game. Mulatto might be a period correct term but I don't see the point of using it? I think few people would be ok with having a player of the south in an ACW game using the n-word to refer to a black regiment in a convention. To me mulatto are in the same category but then again, it is a word you would only hear a hardcore rasist or someone utterly lacking in tact use in Sweden outside of a clear historical situations like using it in a quote from that period and it might be different in the UK. If it is one thing that I have learned of the years is that people most of the time can see the if there is any bad intent behind the usage of a questionable word or not, and are quick to accept any mistakes people make if you are ok with actually accepting that sometimes you do make those mistakes.
As for the whole "is it ok to play a period or conflict"...it depends. I am open for playing a genocide, it the prestation and rules are appropriate for the gravity of it. I am a roleplayer and it can apply to wargames to. I can see the value of trying to put myself in a European colonialist, nazi, khmer rouge or people of that type but it is a sensitive subject and it is very easy to make it leave a bad taste in my mouth. I have read wargaming books about WW2 that make it clear (explicitly in some cases) that the author think everything that are in some way a praise for the Red Army are propaganda while accepting everything except the ideology that say that the germans were the best in every way and I will not play games like that since I find it questionable in a way that goes beyond the mishandling of the facts. Again, it is a question of presentation and of context. I will be interested in reading about how you chose to make the prestation of the game and what reactions you got from people in regards to the subject matter.
The reaction to the game was very positive, to be honest. not one person complained in any way whatsoever. I did get quite a few people who praised the game, because they'd not heard of the period or seen it at a show. And several people commented, that they'd seen the post and I was doing it the right way.
DeleteSo all's good.......I think?
Hi Ray, first of all, I hope the day went well. Secondly, great looking models and set-up.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I'm a late comer to this discussion. For my money, there isn't anything that I can see that would be offensive about your choice of subject. If anything it is praiseworthy for shedding light on a little known subject, where, as others have pointed out, the oppressed and non-white people clearly had agency and achieved a pretty unique outcome. More power to your elbow mate!
On the question of nomenclature, I tend to agree with Schting, the Rittmeister, Pancerni and uiduach. The very fact you are asking the question, rather than dismissing things out of hand, shows you are on the right side. I'm another old, white geezer so I'm probably not up to date, but I can't see anyone having any objection to the use of the term 'black'. I'd be inclined to look to the terms used by academic historians especially if they're used by Haitians today.
All the best,
Chris
Thanks Chris!
DeleteHi Ray, just to jump in, I would also agree that your interest in this war should not be a problem. Like you, I feel that most wargamers will have some periods or conflicts they won't play for their own reasons, and everyone has the right to make their own choices around that. I would say though that we shouldn't judge others for what they choose or choose not to play.
ReplyDeleteThe question of it affecting your family though is I feel a different one. If wargaming choices impact family relationships or how one is perceived by people you care for it starts to get a bit tougher to balance.
My wife is Japanese and the kids are mixed heritage, and one of the ways we deal with the thornier historical questions that come up is with humour. It works for us, but someone listening in on our conversations might wonder what kind of freaks they were dealing with!
Cheers,
Aaron
LOL, I can imagine the looks you'd get. Humour is a godsend for sure,
Delete