It was concerning what ratio pike to shot, Barry and Clarence had made and planned to make their Jacobite units, using Beneath the Lily Banners rules.
They both kindly shared their info with me, as at the time I was clueless!!
Reading through Alan McNally's Osprey "The Battle of the Boyne", I came across a list entitled
" Extract of the Review of the Royal Army, which took place on 1/2 October 1689. Sent by Commissary Fumeron with his letter dated 15th October 1689"
Source Archives Nationales, Depot de la Guerre, Ref A895, Document 1906(25)With this list I roughly (I'm crap at math) worked out the ratio of pike to shot, this then gave me the split between Pike and shot stands for BLB2.
You may not agree with my workings out, and whose to say how many of these men mentioned actually made it to any of the battles, but it may help you in deciding the make-up of your Jacobite forces.
Unit
|
Firearms
|
Pike
|
Unarmed
|
Ratio
|
BLB
Formation
|
James’
Foot Guards
|
926
|
167
|
-
|
11-2
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Antrim’s
|
411
|
46
|
56
|
10-1
|
All
Musket
|
Bagnal
|
256
|
204
|
-
|
5-4
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Bellow’s
|
635
|
185
|
-
|
3-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Boissleau’s
|
676
|
276
|
-
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Clancarty
|
202
|
18
|
-
|
5-1
|
ALL
Musket
|
Clanrickarde
|
436
|
201
|
44
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Cormac
O’Neill
|
710
|
290
|
205
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Creagh
|
444
|
125
|
-
|
3-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Dillon
|
641
|
380
|
215
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Edward
Butler
|
455
|
203
|
14
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Eustace
|
395
|
208
|
130
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Galway
|
297
|
91
|
30
|
3-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Gormanstan
|
404
|
105
|
12
|
4-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Grace
|
163
|
163
|
-
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Grand
Prior
|
360
|
196
|
54
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Hamilton
|
230
|
82
|
30
|
3-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Kenmure
|
543
|
80
|
103
|
6-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Killmallock
|
438
|
213
|
-
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Macarthy
Mor
|
262
|
124
|
32
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Mountcashel
|
195
|
130
|
-
|
3-2
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Nugent
|
504
|
71
|
-
|
7-1
|
All
Musket
|
Oxburgh
|
205
|
80
|
-
|
3-2
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Richard
Butler
|
224
|
120
|
-
|
2-1
|
2
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Slane
|
474
|
0
|
16
|
All
Musket
|
|
Thomas
Butler
|
223
|
58
|
117
|
4-1
|
3
Musket - 1 Pike
|
Anyway, that's a great unit, flags are, once again, wonderful...looking so nice, great work Ray!
ReplyDeleteThat data really shows the drop off of the pike as an important weapon. I'm not familiar with this period is this when the bayonet was introduced?
ReplyDeleteYep, first of all the plug bayonet then the clip on one a little later.
DeleteThat's a lot of guys turning up unarmed! Surely they'd find some kind of weapon? I'm sure I'd manage to find something to stick in between me and the bad guys if I were in their shoes!
ReplyDeleteMe too!
DeleteYour sheet will be invaluable in the case of a scenario.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, nice unit there. How many finished units do you have for the period, Ray?
Not too sure, I'll be posting a couple of pics of the whole collection soon.
DeleteMaybe the unarmed men were just there to support their unit? The hooligans of that time period! :-D
ReplyDeleteNice painted unit and flags Ray!
Greetings
Peter
http://peterscave.blogspot.be/
Like you I'm appalling when it comes to maths, but I'm sure a great many will appreciate your workings out!
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed!
DeleteThe figures are beautiful.
ReplyDeletenicely done mini's Ray. I haven't a clue either but it seems to sort of make sense
ReplyDeleteUnit looks good and the chart looks reasonable enough.
ReplyDeleteThis is the part of gaming that I have the most respect for. The lengths you guys will go to in order to be historically accurate. That's a lot of unarmed men Ray. I'm wondering if any of these guys were carrying cudgels or had things from their farms that could be used as weapons.
ReplyDeleteI expect they had anything that they could get a hold of, like you said farm implements and lumps of wood!
DeleteRay: if you've planed to paint all the regiments with the same number of soldiers, I think that it's too much even for you!!!!
ReplyDeletevery good work !
If only I had the time and money????
DeleteUh. Too advanced for me to grasp? I don't even know.
ReplyDeletelol!
Deletenice figs
ReplyDeleteGreat looking troops, Ray.
ReplyDeleteVery nice indeed Ray!
ReplyDeleteChristopher
Lol - I have the same chart on my computer, made from the same reference!
ReplyDeletelol! Great minds, eh?
DeleteNice overview, thanks for sharing!
ReplyDeleteI am sure this will be of use to those building armies for thie period. Good of you to share
ReplyDeleteIan
Nice workings there. Agreed with Anne on the fact that it is impressive that you guys are so passionate about making sure that the forces are historically accurate as much as possible.
ReplyDeleteThanks Ray, that's a really interesting table. It's interesting to see some fully musket armed battalions alongside 2:1 shot/pike battalions. The former look very 18th Century, and the latter could be from the ECW! I guess that's not that surprising given the real mix of Jacobite forces - I'm guessing there was little time, and perhaps not the will, to standardise. Very interesting stuff. The figures look very good indeed as well! Great stuff!
ReplyDeleteThat's one thing I like about this period, its an in-between period, a bit of ECE and a bit of WSS.
DeleteLooks good
ReplyDeleteI am totally impressed as I got completely lost!
ReplyDeletenot the kind of level of detail I'm into with my units!
DeleteRay, have you had a chance to play version 2 yet? I'm curious how it compares to the original?
ReplyDeleteIts quite different, Barry made a few changes which have improved the rules no end. Check out this link, its the last BLB2 game we played, http://onelover-ray.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/la-bataille-de-deux-ponts-1693.html
DeleteWhat are you trying to do, get me interested in another period!? That's a great looking unit - nicely done.
ReplyDeleteerrr yes!
DeleteNice bit of research there, Ray! Very handy - well done.
ReplyDelete-Curt
Cheers Curt!!
DeleteVery nice mini's and very in-depth research. Taking the extra mile as usual ray.
ReplyDeleteVery helpful Ray to certain people!
ReplyDeleteyour the boy..:( now even more painting to be done...
ReplyDeleteTHANKS!!!!
good stuff as usual
john